Thursday, 20 September 2007
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Question 17 - Cardinal Ratzinger on the Chosen People
Question 17 - Cardinal Ratzinger on the Chosen People
Robert,
I think Cardinal Ratzinger believed that the Jews are still the Chosen People of God. If you can, please comment on these 4 pages from Cardinal Ratzinger's book, God and the World (2000).
God Bless,
Laurence
R. Sungenis: The Cardinal doesn’t say that the Jews are still the Chosen People. The questioner asked about the Chosen People issue, but the cardinal did not use the phrase “chosen people” in his answer. In fact, the question and the answer seem to be dealing with two different issues. Cardinal Ratzinger is focusing on God’s faithfulness, and his subsequent statement (“Of course, we can see that Israel has some way to go…we believe they will be together with us in Christ”) turns the answer onto a different track, that is, it does not emphasize the Jews, in themselves, as the Chosen People but sees them attaining that status when they “believe together with us in Christ.” Likewise, when the cardinal says: “they stand within the faithful covenant of God,” this can only refer to one covenant, the Abrahamic covenant, which is now the New Covenant, the same one that Luke 1:72-73 and Hebrews 10:16-18 said that Christ fulfilled on the cross. The cardinal is quite clear about this in his book “Many Religions – One Covenant.” There is only one covenant, the New Covenant. Thus, it is the only covenant to which God can be “faithful.” In other words, the only way the Jews can experience God’s faithfulness is by accepting the New Covenant. When they do so, they become the Chosen People, as 1 Peter 2:9-10 tells us. So, in that sense alone, they still have the potential of being the Chosen People.
When the cardinal says, “They are assured of the faithfulness of God,” he says what he means in the very next sentence: “They are not excluded from salvation…” Yes, very true, and it is what I’ve been saying all along. The question of Jewish salvation was the precise question that St. Paul asked in Romans 11:1-2, and it would be the natural question to ask once the nation of Israel was rejected by God as his ambassador on earth when Christ died on the cross. Everyone would wonder whether Jews could still be saved. Did God totally abandon them? St. Paul assures us that, since God gave a promise to Abraham about providing salvation for the Jews, He will remain faithful to it and still give every Jew the opportunity to be saved. But notice that God’s “faithfulness” is not defined by the cardinal as some special privilege the Jews have over the rest of the world, or that God is required to save or resurrect their nation. The cardinal gives no such suggestion.
As for the cardinal’s comment about “how the reuniting of Jews and Gentiles will occur,” I would suggest to him that it has already occurred, is now occurring, and will occur in the future, since Jews, from the beginning of the New Testament, have been coming into the Church. There has never been a point in the New Testament period that Jews have not come into the Catholic Church, and thus God is faithful to his promises.
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Comments (5)
He called Jews an infection and said they were "excised" for what they do. Most everyone else gets that there's a big problem. His bishop and the USCCB jumped in. Do you know what it takes to get that to happen?
About Ratzinger, you've gotta be joking, dude. In Ratztingers own book he puts in a question to answer,
"God has not, then, retracted his word that Israel is the chosen people?"
His answer?
"NO, BECAUSE HE IS FAITHFUL."
http://weblog.xanga.com/bellarmi...sen- people.html
But Sungenis says, "The Cardinal doesn't say the Jews are still the chosen people."
Huh? Rediculous.
And do you know about Edgar's question? He's into the Michael Hoffman "Jews really aren't Jews" antisemitism. That's why he put quotes around "Jews" in his question. That's what these people do. I've seen it enough to know. Read about it. Learn.
If you know about it and don't care you're just as bad as them.
If you read all of the hyperlinks and don't see a problem then I won't waste any more time trying to help you get it.
You'll learn eventually or sink with him.
Good luck!
Gus | 10.05.07 - 7:00 pm | #
Cardinal Ratzinger has never given the title the "Chosen People" to the Jews of our day. You are simply putting words in his mouth that he did not say. The only reference to the "Chosen People" as applying to the Jews concerns when they were the people of God in the Old Testament. Moreover, the Church has never said that the Jews of today are the Chosen People, unless it has been in reference to their ancestors who were once the Chosen People. The Church says very clearly in Lumen Gentium 2, 9 and Ad Gentes 1, 5 that the Church is the New Israel and that the Church is now the Chosen People. That is precisely why neither Cardinal Ratzinger nor Pope Benedict XVI have ever explicitly stated that the Jews of today remain the Chosen People.
Robert Sungenis
R. Sungenis: The Cardinal doesn’t say that the Jews are still the Chosen People. The questioner asked about the Chosen People issue, but the cardinal did not use the phrase “chosen people” in his answer. In fact, the question and the answer seem to be dealing with two different issues.
Really, it looks like a lot of gyration going on to miss what he said. It's not like Q-A's here with outsiders asking questions. This is the Cardinal's book with questions put in to move the discusion along. Maybe the reason you think their dealing with two different things is because you don't like his answer? Maybe it doesn't jive with your beleifs? Really. Nothing presonal.
The question was put in the present tense, not the past one. But even though they're still chosen in some way, that doesn't mean that they can be saved apart from Jesus! He doesn't say that. No! Two different issues there. There's still a unique relationship between them and God because of the fathers of Isreal. But that can't save them without Jesus! And it doesn't make Jews better than Gentiles! Just different, that's all. Different roles.
I don't know any natinality God says he'll save right up until the end of the wolrd, even if you don't believe in a mass conversion of Jews at the end. No promises like that are made to Ethiopans, Greeks, Egyptians or Italians. So, there's still something diffent going on there in that relatinship with Isreal even now and to the end of the world.
And what the Cardinal said about the conversion of the Jews? I guess you're not a fan of that either, so you made a suggestion for him? Wow! He said: "We are in fact waiting for the moment when Israel, too, will say Yes to Christ. But we know that while history still runs its course even this stnading at the door fulfills a mission, one that is imprtant for the world." Then he goes on to say: "As Christans we believe that they will in the end be together with us in Christ…It is in God's hands of course, just in what way, when and how the reuification of God's people, will be acheived."
And did you see he said they still have a mission even while they stand waiting now?
I don't know. Looks plain enough to me.
Sorry. I should have put something showing that your quote ended after the last snetence in the firt paragraph. The way I put it in it came out like Dr. Sungenis wrote the whole thing! Doh!
Did not like the recent farce in NYC with the Papal Mass-me thinks the Pope may have been unaware, etc (charity always goesto Pope unless otherwise proven).But, good response, Robert
Something I try to remember from Jacinta Marto's words:
"I don't know how it was, but I saw the Holy Pope in a very large house. He was kneeling by a table with his face in his hands and he was crying. Outside the house were many people. Some of them were throwing stones at him, others were cursing him and using bad language. Poor Holy Father, we must pray for him"