February 18, 2010

  • Question 223 – Did Moses Write the Pentateuch, part 2

    This is too easy:

     

    JS: Moses is the traditional, but not the actual author. For one thing, he recounts his own funeral,

     

    R. Sungenis: Deut 34 does not say Moses recounts his own funeral. Joshua would be the one to do so, especially since Joshua is the next author in sequence. The last record of Moses speaking in the first person is in Deut 33. In Deut 34, Moses is addressed in the third person.

     

    JS: and for another, the composition spans several centuries at least.

     

    So there were two authors, not one. This would seem to concede the point. But why stop at two?

     

    R. Sungenis2: Concede what point? You only arrived at your “point” by begging the question. You claim “Moses is…not the actual author.” The Pentateuch says Moses is the author, as do other books in Scripture, and the Pentateuch doesn’t claim to have four anonymous authors spread out over centuries. (e.g., the JEPD theory). It only claims to have one, barring Joshua’s epitaph of Moses (which is only natural since Joshua then wrote “Joshua” after Moses died). Hence, the burden is on you to prove your “point.” You arrive at your point by claiming there is “inconsistency” and “repetition,” hardly something that would stand up in court unless you could prove your claim.

     

    R. Sungenis: Says who and on what basis? The JEPD theorists who claim that Genesis 2 was written earlier than Genesis 1

     

    Well, it really doesn't matter which was written first, they are contradictory accounts. They certainly weren't written together, or by the same other, unless he was seriously confused. The truth of the accounts (and they are both true) does not come from their "historical" truth, but for there different accounts of the different aspects of our relationship with God and each other.

     

    R. Sungenis2: Says who? The same JEPD theorists that are looking for contradictions because they are prone to exaggerating textual difficulties into a denial of single authorship?? I and many other scholars have gone through Genesis 1 and 2 with a fine-toothed comb and can safely say there are no “contradictions.” If you claim otherwise, give us your best example of a “contradiction” that cannot be resolved. Incidentally, the idea that “different account give different aspects of our relationship with God and each other” is true regardless. There is always a deeper level to the history. The important thing is that you don’t deny or obscure the history because you think you have arrived at some higher spiritual truth. They don’t compete, they complement each other.

     

    JS: If there was one author, why was he so repetitive and inconsistent?

     

    R. Sungenis: Are the four gospels repetitive because they record the same event four times?

     

    Exactly! Gospels: four accounts, four authors. Pentateuch: many accounts, many authors.

     

    R. Sungenis2: No, the four Gospels have four authors because they claim to have four authors, and tradition backs it up. The Pentateuch doesn’t claim to have four authors and neither does tradition. You merely read into the Pentateuch what your theory of “inconsistency” and “repetition” demands, and you do so with a Johnny-come-lately theory that was devised 1800 years after Scripture and Tradition were established, and then by a theory that sees no difference between the Bible and the lliad, since they are both said to be written by merely human authors. The Bible was inspired, the Illiad wasn’t, but Wellhausen said no.

     

    JS: As a traditionalist- -that is, as a Catholic--I have no problem with the divine message being spread over many different authors and ages, even if we know few of the authors and little of the ages.

     

    R. Sungenis: As a "traditionalist Catholic" you should accept God's testimony through Jesus that Moses was the only author of the Pentateuch, including Deuteronomy (John 5:46; Matt 19:1-8)

     

    I would accept it, if that was his testimony. But since he is just following the traditional attribution, we do not need to push it further than that. Now, if he had "Some have said to thee that Moses is not the single author of the Pentateuch, but I say unto thee..." that would be a different matter. But he didn't.

     

    R. Sungenis2: First, I’ll use your own logic against you. The Pentateuch doesn’t say: “Moses is not the single author of the Pentateuch; there were multiple authors spanning many centuries,” yet you claim there had to be multiple authors.

     

    Second, you are merely begging the question again. If the argument for multiple authorship didn’t exist in Jesus’ time, he would have no reason to say “Some have said to thee that Moses is not the single author of the Pentateuch, but I say unto thee...” Since the Jews have always held that Moses wrote it, Jesus would have no reason to question it. You can’t use as proof something that was never said to be in contention in the first place.

     

    Third, neither Jesus, Stephen (Acts 7), Paul, Peter nor any other New Testament writer who comments on the Pentateuch says that anyone other than Moses wrote the Pentateuch. So again, the burden of proof is on you, not us. If “inconsistencies” and “repetitions” have a reasonable answer, then you really don’t have any substantial evidence to support the Documentary Hypothesis. If you think this is “too easy” and have such an “inconsistency” that cannot be answered and thus proves multiple authorship, be my guest. I’d like to see it.